Transcript

Please note the transcript below is generated by AI — for the full contextual experience, please listen to the podcast if you are able.

Lana W.: [00:00:00] There's lots of easy ways that, you know, you can start being more connected. One of them is trying to, you know, for instance, go to farmers markets, talk to the the different farmers and producers there about their food, about their farms, and see some more of, like, the local food production that's happening in your area and buy more local products. You know, it's when we talk about emissions and the global greenhouse gases, it's not really the 1 that makes the biggest impact, but I think it's always worthwhile to try to connect more and try to learn more, not be so impersonal impersonal to what's on your plate. Because I think that's kind of the first step is to even, like, think about it and try to be more part of that process and have that local connection.

Awoenam: Welcome, future ancestors, to Fostering Our Earth, a space to imagine what our sustainable future can actually look like.

I'm your host, Awoe Mauna-Woanya. You call me ah-way. And today, we'll be [00:01:00] talking about food and food systems. That clip you just heard was from my conversation with Lana Weidgenant, senior UN policy manager at ProVeg International, where we talk about what our sustainable food system of the future can look like. Lana and I actually attended Hopkins together a few years ago, and we were supposed to host another podcast with our office of multicultural affairs.

So this discussion we have kind of feels full circle. Before we get to the main course of this discussion, let's whet our appetite with some big picture overview. Food is the ultimate human experience. Whether it's for sustenance or enjoyment, you love it and I love it. Globalization and the Internet has made all kinds of cuisines super accessible to us.

My parents always joke with me, say, asking where I learned to eat all these new foods. However, if everything was perfect, we would be here talking about it. I recently read Hannah Ritchie's Not the End of the World, and she urges us to look at sustainability with a long view and not lose sight of the progress we've made in human history. So let's start there. Food security in [00:02:00] human history has improved so much.

In the last 50 years alone, our global population has doubled, and death from famine is at record lows. This is great. Right? Well, this progress has come at an ecological cost. Our current way of farming, transporting, and consuming food impacts our planet at a scale worthy of worsening the climate.

It drives deforestation and harms biodiversity with our excess use of fertilizers. At the same time, millions of people are still food insecure both in the US and globally, while food waste and obesity are at incredibly high rates. With all this in mind, I can't help but ask what a sustainable yet equitable food system can actually look like. Ideally, it's one that's both healthy for our people but also for our planet. To unpack this, I've invited Lana to chat about food and food systems.

And so without further ado, let's get cooking.

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Awoenam: [00:00:00] Hi Lana. It's so good to see you. Thank you so much for joining me on fostering our earth. i'm really excited to have you As we're chatting just a few minutes beforehand, I was saying that we follow each other on social media and for our listeners like I Well, Lana, we went to Hopkins together and actually I don't know if you remember this but we're supposed to do a podcast together with the Office of Multicultural Affairs.

they're supposed to do this podcast, and like, our friend Sindhu, I forget what it was called but we were supposed to do it, but then like, it just never materialized. Somehow, I feel like a lot happened in our undergrad days, which kind of feels like forever ago.

But, since then, like, I've seen you do incredible work. And I'm always, like, very impressed with all that you're doing. And I'm we're doing, we're both in like the climate sustainability space. I have fostering our earth, where I get to chat with folks about what a sustainable future looks like and , trying to teach folks that it's totally attainable, and helped folks imagine what this future looks [00:01:00] like.

And I was like, wait, I should have a chat with Lana and, have her talk about all things food and the work that she's doing. And so I just want to say super glad you're here. And I'll give you a chance to say hello to everyone and just tell me a bit about yourself. Who are you? What do you do?

Lana W.: Thank you for the invite and my name is Lana Weidgenant. I went to Hopkins before and now I am working kind of in the intersection of food systems, agriculture and climate action. Sometimes also with youth if that's an interest area and some of the work that I've been doing is looking at how we can make sure that food systems and agriculture are not an overlooked sector when it comes to the climate action that needs to happen for a sustainable resilient future specifically for young people and for future generations, and unfortunately, that has been the case a lot in the past is that kind of the agriculture food security conversations have have been very separate [00:02:00] from the conversations on climate and sustainability and staying within planetary boundaries.

And knowing that the science really shows that it will not be possible to mitigate or kind of avoid a climate catastrophe if we don't address food. Of course, there's other important areas we know, right? Like energy, transport. That are also contributing to the climate crisis, but I kind of see that they are being talked about especially energy is a very big focus and making sure that we talk about energy But we also talk about food so that we can really be successful in what needs to happen and i'm happy to go into some more of my roles, but Currently i'm focusing more in UN and international policy.

I have some background in national policy and looking at Policy efforts and advocacy in the United States as well, but currently I'm looking more at the UN So if you think of like the climate conference or COP 28 And some of the other processes like on food systems too.

Awoenam: That's really [00:03:00] cool. And it's so cool. You get to work at the global scale, I feel like, a lot of the issues that we face or maybe experience, you know, might just be so like local to us, and you might only hear about what's happening at a global scale, but it kind of feels so far away.

And so it's really cool that you get to talk about these issues and ask these questions and push for change, globally, 'cause I guess in, in the end, we're all one big system. I guess my first question really is like, what is a food system?

Like, we're we're talking about food you're talking about agriculture, you're talking about its intersection with, you know, energy and climate and there are a lot of different parts to this, you know, like, what is a food system? What's wrong with it? And like, why are you passionate about, about food?

Lana W.: Great questions. So, We kind of start using this framing now called a food system, which of course is not something, a term that everyone knows or grew up with but it's kind of how we try to talk about food beyond just production or beyond just farming. So trying to think about food in [00:04:00] terms of not only where it's grown, which is of course an important part of I'm talking about food, but also what happens after that.

So from what would be called like farm to plate to waste. So thinking also about the consumption side, how food is consumed and what causes like the consumption patterns. And then also if it's wasted afterwards. So kind of trying to think about all the different ways that food kind of has a sustainability and emissions impact and interacts with us.

Because of course it's not just about. Where it's grown and in terms of some of the problems, well, there's so many different angles that we could come from in terms of the climate side. We know that food is both food and agriculture is both going to be impacted strongly and is already being impacted strongly by climate change, but that it's also a significant contributor in terms of emissions and pollution and that it is causing the climate crisis too.

So it goes on both sides. And I think that's part [00:05:00] of. What made me think about food and focus on it more because you can see that it's really a place where you can see the problems that are happening very clearly if you start looking in terms of for instance, factory farms or industrial animal agriculture in the United States, you can really see how these problems intertwine in terms of the workers are being harmed.

The nearby communities are being harmed. There's a lot of pollutions directly. You know, emissions directly contributing to the climate crisis. There's animals being harmed all these different interactions, but then you also know that it's so clear if we can address food. Well, we can also progress on so many different areas at once.

And it's 1 that isn't already being worked on enough or addressed enough. So if we can go in. and make this progress. We can move forward in so many different ways and also buy ourselves more time to address things like the climate crisis that, you know, is so urgent and we really need as much time as we can get.

Awoenam: Yeah. Wow. That's, [00:06:00] that's a lot, like you're, you're hitting on a lot of, like, I'm imagining like, you know, food is like the center. I'm imagining like a spider web that comes out of it, , like with different spokes. And there's like the climate side of things. There's the food inequality and inequity side of things, there's the even the worker inequality, folks who are being forced to, produce all this food for us and, asking questions of, are they getting paid a living wage, and like, sort of that set of issues or even like factory food production, now I'm even thinking about the quality of our food, , and it's like, and then the animals themselves too, like, what about them, and so, yeah, you're right, like, food touches everything, and I like the way you, you put it, how do you say it, it's farm to, something to plate?

Lana W.: I think the the one that's usually used is farm to fork to

Awoenam: Farm to fork to waste, okay, gotcha, like, where it comes from, us eating it, and then, waste. Wow. Okay. With that,[00:07:00] let's talk maybe farm. What are some issues with the farming side of things, like what are some modern changes or advancements in like agriculture that we're making, cause I feel like a lot of us don't think about where exactly our food really comes from.

I think that you go to your, the typical experience, you go to your grocery store if you're able to, and like, you have, there's some produce there, maybe some meats there, some, fruits and vegetables, and there's tons, in the freezer aisles, there's tons of frozen meals, which I'm sure are like trucked in from wherever they're made, you know, just for you to like go microwave and, you know, and but that's sort of like the limited extent of like our experience with where our food comes from but there's so much that happens that leads up to the food getting to us and so like, like, can you tell me about more about like, you know, agriculture, where's our food coming from?

Are there advancements being made? And yeah.

Lana W.: so I actually think one of the most interesting kind of technological [00:08:00] innovations or Advancements, you might think of it is more on the consumption side, which is alternative proteins. You might know plant based meats, which have been more in grocery stores in the last few years. And now we're looking at even, you know, there's been some news about cultivated or.

Yeah, cultivated meat, fermentation, like different technologies and I think that could really be one of those that can change a lot of the food system as we know it. And you know, if you don't know kind of how that works, it's like being able to have these animal products without involving such a large scale animal agriculture and.

In terms of knowing on the work that we do in consumption, right, that diets need to change, especially in countries like the United States and Western Europe and Australia, the levels of meat consumption are not sustainable. And I think people who have been trying to work on dietary shifts have been seeing that some people just don't want to [00:09:00] change their habits.

So they're going to try and change how that food is. Even reaches you and kind of how to have meat without the animal and that could change a lot of the the food system in the next few years, you know, pending that regulatory approval and getting that accepted, but that's, I think, one of those examples.

I work more on the policy side. And we can kind of see how, you know, when we get stuck with policy and politics and not moving things forward, innovations like this could really come in and change a lot in the next few years. And that's something that we have to think about.

Awoenam: No, yeah, that, that makes a lot of sense. I have two questions, two things come to mind. First is like. What is the biggest stumbling block on the policy front, like, if we, we've made it so clear that, okay, like, for harming animals, like, it's a very extensive process, trying to, you know, you know, the, the food, the meat creation, or food, meat developing process, you don't develop meat, [00:10:00] you, you know, cultivate meat that, that's a positive word, anyway, that, that process is like, it's an intensive admissions producing process, you know, so like if all the signs are there for this, like, what, what are some of the biggest stumbling blocks?

Lana W.: Yeah, I mean, this is new, right? In terms of thinking about even doing this and and then looking to implement it. So I think, some of the biggest stumbling blocks are also aside from, you know, getting it approved, making sure that it's safe and that it's not going to, you know, if we pass it through too fast, it could have like future consequences that we don't quite know about.

So making sure, you know, that's done properly. And of course, some countries are more eager to get it through than others, like in Singapore and in the United States, whereas a lot of the rest of the world is still, you know, hesitating. And it kind of depends how well it goes in the countries that are moving that forward more.

But then there's also the consumer side, right? Like, will people actually eat this? Who will eat this? And will it be accepted [00:11:00] in stride? Because, you know, the people who would, it would really need to target and have it accepted by is people who are currently consuming meat, especially in large quantities, you know, not vegetarians or vegans, because that would just result in more emissions than eating plants and more plant based foods.

So I think that's a lot of the question is, even if we get it through all the regulatory approval, will people kind of not think that this is. Too weird to have and that's some another level of work that there are organizations trying to work on to kind of educate people before it hits the market of like, this could be coming and, you know, here's some more information so that hopefully, you know, you can understand it better and not be too freaked out when the option comes to you.

Awoenam: No, totally, yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense, you know, makes sure it's safe for sure, but then also like, are people gonna eat it, you know, like, it's, it's definitely different, and if it, I, I remember at, when we were at Hopkins, in like the dining halls, see they'd always have like, [00:12:00] Like, like fake meat sometimes and, it's, it was always just like a, a separate option, but sort of as you're saying, like, it can't just always be just, It's just an option for, you know, one, two to 5 percent of the population to have, because that's not enough, you know, that's not enough for us to like, really make the strides that, that we need and people might think it's, it's different.

It's weird, and yeah, I think, that I see, like, in, I'm seeing more often in more restaurants, like Impossible Beef being offered as like an option, you know, like, or fair meat substitutions and so hopefully, it's sort of taking it from just like, And it's like a niche option to sort of just being like the norm, and it's like maybe you're paying a premium for, you know, non alternative meats, but, sort of flipping the percentage or like the ratios between the two.

So then more on the consumer side of things, you know, I've read a lot of research that says that like food waste is a huge issue, you know, like here in the US, like I know that we're throwing away some like [00:13:00] 30, 40%. Of the food that we're producing, which is kind of insane to think about because all the time, what do you think about global food issues?

We always talk about food insecurity and like how there are X million people and children going hungry. Why do we live in a world? Like, why is this duality? Why does this exist? You know, like how big of an issue is food waste really? And why, why do we waste our food? And why can't, you know, why is this happening?

Lana W.: Yeah, I mean, it's really insane when you, when you frame it that way, you know, not only is food waste a big problem, you know, environmentally and sustainably too, but when you look at food security, like that, the amount of food wasted, if we just had it distributed differently. And not wasted, that could be the entire world, right?

And we're looking at so much levels of world hunger. And one of the sustainable development goals for the United Nations is this goal of reaching zero hunger by the year 2030. [00:14:00] And we're completely set to be off mark on that. And, you know, it's actually worsening the projections of if we're going to be close to that with recent years of pandemic.

Global conflicts that are happening each time it gets further and further away. And I mean, currently we're about 600 million away from reaching that, which is a terrible number, but it's also I think we've realized for a long time that we do have enough food in the world that we do have enough capacity and production to feed everyone.

But it's not the question ultimately goes to the distribution and it's not getting to the people who need it. And I think that's one of those. Those terrible contradictions in this space and I think that kind of is another powerful one outside of the climate and environment angle. Well, a bit outside of it, of course, it's all connected, but another way to show just the problems in the food [00:15:00] system and how that needs to be one of the global priorities, aside with, you know, keeping that within planetary boundaries and reducing the emissions intensity.

And the environmental implications, we also need to be able to feed more people and, you know, for growing population too. So I think that's always one of the considerations when we talk about food.

Awoenam: Yeah, and again, you know, I guess it's a facet of the fact that we're talking about systems, you're, you're bringing in how it's again tied to different things, how the impact of, global conflicts, has on food production and you're talking about the distribution systems to, and like making sure that people are able to receive the food that's being produced it, I guess, also in a globalized world, like our foods coming from all over the place, like, Like, where we're privileged enough to be able to, have, food that isn't grown here be, shipped out to us or trucked out here and yeah, so this, that's, that's really interesting.

On the local front, I remember when I was an undergrad, [00:16:00] I interned and I worked with an organization called the Black Church Food Security Network and it's org in Baltimore that turns, or that builds gardens on churches. Churches that have the space to build gardens and to be able to grow fruits and vegetables and produce for their congregation members and folks in their communities sort of creating then this sort of, so it's a soil to sanctuary markets, sort of like farmer's markets at these different churches.

And during it, I learned a lot about , thought a lot about food insecurity and how that happens locally, it's sure we're talking about folks. Globally, 600 million people, you know, for 2030 target who are suffering from food insecurity, but there's also tons of food insecurity happening here in the US, whether that's in the form of like straight up hunger or even bad food, like ultra processed food and the lack of access to fresh produce foods that like, Reduces our chances of getting high cholesterol or high blood pressure or heart disease and [00:17:00] like sort of like thinking about the intersection of like food and health and like how that happens in our communities nearby.

 Could you talk some more on like what does food look like locally?

Lana W.: Sure. I mean, I haven't focused too much on the local level, but I also used to do that back in, in Baltimore and Johns Hopkins. And I think we all start kind of on the local level when we start thinking about these issues. And of course, it's extremely important, even when we talk about any global issue, right?

There's that saying of think globally, act locally. And I think a lot of people tend to bring that forward. I think it's something that I tend to think about a lot in terms of this food systems approach, right? And thinking about consumption and the whole path of food outside of production.

And when we talk about people needing to change their consumption, change their diets, right? It can be a very privileged conversation, especially when we take more into account that people often don't have access. You know, there is [00:18:00] food apartheid food sovereignty issues in many places across the world and in the U s. too. And I think that's something that I always think about in terms of when we talk about consumption, you know, sometimes people imagine that. Or even like in the U. N. Sometimes we talk to like representatives and delegates, and they can only imagine that as Oh, but I don't want to tell people what to do, and I think it should be thought of rather as making those options available and changing the systems that cause us to kind of need to move in one way, because. From a policy perspective when we think about, you know, consumption of food, there's so many different ways that we can try to make people have access to healthier foods, have access to more fresh produce, have more availability and less cost. For our foods that, you know, are better for them, are better for the planet, that everyone should have access to as a human, right?

And so I think that's often not the way that that conversation or that work is imagined. And I think that's something that we need [00:19:00] to, to change because there's always, there tends to be so much hesitation around talking about anything other than like agriculture and farming because Consumption is, is personal, of course, and there's so many different reasons traditions, cultures behind how we act the way we do but it's not like the only way to work on consumption is telling someone, like, you need to change.

It's your responsibility. And rather trying to make that better and trying to make the system around it better as well.

Awoenam: Yeah, food first is personal, and you're right, it's a huge part of our culture and our traditions. I'm originally from Ghana and like, whenever I think about home and my culture, I'd like, you know, the first thing that comes to mind is, the food that my, my people eat, and it's like really, it, it, food isn't just.

It's something for sustenance, and it's, it's totally personal. And then there's also the side of personal responsibility, but it's while it's, while food is personal, we're still victims of, the [00:20:00] system and what it allows us to be able to have access to.

And so I really like that comparison of those two, like the individual and, your local community versus, the systems that influence your food. Systemically, like how do you think we could connect more with our food systems?

and just or really just connect more with the food that We, we eat and we interact with, you know, whether grocery stores, farmers markets, or restaurants that we go to. Do you have any, recommendations of, how we can, like, maybe alter our, diet or grocery shopping habits to be more sustainable?

And what's the relationship there between sustainability and more connectivity with the foods that we, we eat and interact with?

Lana W.: Of course, I think in the U. S. we can really go a long way to be more connected because I think in, in many other regions and countries, people are There tend to be a lot more connected to where their food comes from than here in the States. You know, if you look at [00:21:00] examples in Ghana, for instance, or my background is in Brazil, like people are not as disconnected to their food as they are here in that people, especially in more rural areas, you know, outside of big cities, they tend to have more connections to their local farmer.

To who grows their food, they can see where it's coming from, where it's here, like, you go to the grocery store, you pick it out, I mean, for almost everyone here, you really have no idea what went into getting the food that you buy what brought it there, how it was produced so I think there's lots of easy ways that, you know, you can start being more connected one of them is Trying to, you know, for instance, go to farmers markets, talk to the different farmers and producers there about their food, about their farms and see some more of like the local food production that's happening in your area and buy more local products.

You know, it's when we talk about emissions and the global greenhouse gases, it's not really the one that makes the biggest impact. But I think it's always [00:22:00] worthwhile to try to connect more and try to learn more, not be so impersonal to what's on your plate. Cause I think that's kind of the first step is to even like, think about it and try to be more part of that process and have that local connection.

And then part of that is also thinking about, you know, how you can make more sustainable ethical choices, more values, aligned choices, depending on what your values are. So that is really just like taking some more time to think about how you contribute to that, you know, three times or more a day. And I think oftentimes people are disconnected, not only in terms of not knowing where it comes from, but also just not thinking about what you contribute to every time that you buy a meal or you buy the ingredients and what that might be doing. So spending some more time to think about that and trying to go in a better direction, I think, is something that we can easily do. You can tailor it to what works for you and you know, try to support a more sustainable world. That's a [00:23:00] really powerful way to do it. When you think about individual choices.

I mean, I work in policy, so I think, like, policy changes one of the extremely needed areas, but you can also make an impact, you know, it's not mutually exclusive. You can work on systemic change and also support it with that individual change and aligning your values and the food that you eat is pretty much the most powerful individual choice that you can make so if you're going to change one and you're thinking about like taking a shorter shower or turning your lights off food can really make a bigger difference.

You don't have to do all of them But this is really one that can make Can be important. And so I would, I would advise you to start thinking about that and it's not, you know, 100 or nothing. It's not like if you can't do it perfect, just give up. No, just start small and think about what you can do and try to connect more.

Awoenam: No, totally. That's huge. You know, like what, just thinking, asking one or two more questions about where your food comes from and what better choices can you [00:24:00] make, you know? And also like you're saying, you know, it doesn't have to be a hundred, you know, but any steps we can take towards thinking more about the food, our food, where it comes from the, the ethics of it, the sustainability of it like that, that's all super, super important.

Yeah. So you, you mentioned you're from Brazil I guess, compared to home, what's the biggest difference between like food here in the U S and food back home?

I know you mentioned it's people are more connected, but like, how does that show up? Is it, do you see these, or is it like the same experience of like going to a big grocery store and picking your food or like, what's the biggest difference?

Lana W.: I guess I can't speak for the entire country or even city, but yeah, my experience is. That you know, it's it's a different expectation, like, people will eat pretty much the same thing, like, every day and you'll only have, like, some of these, these foods, like, a barbecue, for instance, like, one day, like, on the Sunday[00:25:00] each week, versus having that, like, three times a day.

Rather, you'll have, like, rice and beans, like, most of the time so I feel like it's a very different from kind of, like, the luxury and privileges is. That people kind of take for granted in places like the US and that they think is, or a lot of people think is normal, right? Like, oh, everyone is having as much consuming as much as people are here.

And I think that level of consumption, if everyone else in the world did it, we would be in an even worse situation in terms of food insecurity and climate crisis and

Awoenam: No, yeah, totally. And thank you for sharing that, again, like we said, food is definitely personal. And, when you mentioned just now that, you have this barbecue, whether it's once a week or so, a less frequent. Yeah. cadence, as I'm thinking, you know, in my own culture too, growing up for, you know, the first eight, nine years of my life in Ghana and like, I remember it's on the big holidays that we'd have the, that that's what, like, we'd get, like, the meal becomes more special, you know, throughout the week.

It's like the more basic, whether [00:26:00] it's, lots of rice and beans, shout out to our rice and beans and, our basic wheats, we love it. But then like, it's. It's way less frequent, than when you come here, like compared to here in the U.

S. where like, you could very easily have, you know, sausages for breakfast, you're having this chicken meal for lunch, and then this big barbecue for dinner, you know, and it's just like, wow, we are really consuming a lot. Our per capita, per meal emissions total is, is, is very different if the whole world lived like, the most extreme, like we'd be in a lot of trouble.

And so thank you for sharing it again. It just reminds us that, you know, food is personal and yeah, to end, I just want to ask, you know, like, tell me what is, you know, whether it's your favorite meal, your favorite type of cuisine,

Lana W.: okay, so I suppose I can kind of answer both. I'm not sure if this is a cuisine, but personally, I have chosen to have a more plant based diet, you know, looking at all of these different considerations that we've been talking about living in a global north country, having the privileges [00:27:00] to do so, and specifically having been living in New York City more recently, which has so many options, and it's so easy to do so.

So that's what I've been doing. And I had for having me. the pleasure of going to this amazing place which is kind of like this one of like the best restaurants called 11 Madison Park and they decided to go 100 percent plant based. So now they're trying to maintain like this. Like amazing fine dining quality and it's all from plants and I think that has to be like my favorite meal recently because it was really amazing to see what can even be possible, how you can still have innovation and creativity and delicious food and, you know, taking more of that responsibility personally to eat more sustainably, given my context,

Awoenam: Thank you so much for sharing this with me. Thank you for your time and discussing some of these, big picture, but yet personal conversation of food and climate and it's really good to hear [00:28:00] from you.

Lana W.: great to hear from you too. Thanks for the

Awoenam: Of course. Thank you.